Ep.135/ BRAAAND
How branding goes beyond visual components to create connection with Kes Nielson, Founder of BRAAAND
Mariah Parsons, Host of Retention Chronicles & Head of Marketing at Malomo, is joined by Kes Nielson, a branding expert and Founder of BRAAAND. They discuss the importance of branding in e-commerce. Kes emphasizes that branding extends beyond logos and color palettes, focusing on creating emotional connections with customers to drive long-term loyalty and revenue. She highlights that effective branding can increase revenue by 20-23% and improve customer retention. Kes also discusses the significance of branding in societal issues, citing a campaign for Fight Against Domestic Violence (FADV) that aims to raise awareness and empower victims. She stresses the importance of uniqueness and intentionality in branding strategies.
Episode Timestamps:
2:24 Kess's Background and Branding Philosophy
5:25 The Importance of Branding in Customer Experience
8:24 Challenges and Opportunities in Branding
8:39 The Role of Emotional Intelligence in Branding
37:08 The Impact of Branding on Societal Issues
43:39 Collaborations and Partnerships
48:19 The Future of Branding in Ecommerce
Ep.135
KES NIELSON
TRANSCRIPT
This transcript was completed by an automated system, please forgive any grammatical errors.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
branding strategy, customer loyalty, emotional connection, repeat purchases, post-purchase experience, customer retention, brand trust, brand advocacy, customer experience, brand differentiation, brand storytelling, brand authenticity, brand impact, brand vision, brand uniqueness
SPEAKERS
Kes Nielson, Mariah Parsons
Mariah Parsons 00:05
Greetings and welcome to retention. Chronicles, the podcast with learnings from expert e commerce brands and partners. I'm your host. Mariah Parsons, if you're here, you're either on a quest for E commerce enlightenment or you accidentally click the wrong link. Either way, I am thrilled you stumbled into our corner of the internet, and I hope you'll stick around. We've got pearls of wisdom for everyone, whether you're running a multi million dollar business or simply just starting out on your entrepreneurial journey. Before we unleash the brilliance of today's guests, let's give a shout out to our podcast sponsor, malomo. Malomo is so much more than just another Shopify app, their post purchase wizards, making beautiful and branded order tracking smoother than a jazz solo. So our amazing founders, like our guests, can keep their customers happy and up to date while they track their orders. So hit that subscribe button like it'll increase your LTV overnight and go listen to our other episodes@gomolomo.com that's G O M, a, l o m, o.com Get ready for insights, chuckles and perhaps a profound realization or two with this newest episode of retention Chronicles. Hello everyone, and welcome back to retention Chronicles. Kess, thank you so much for being with me here today. We originally met at a female founders only event in Utah. It was the Black Friday Cyber Monday boot camp, I believe was the full title. And if our listeners aren't aware of that program, you should definitely look into it. It's a nonprofit that Mackenzie Bauer, from thread wallets is running, and she is crushing it. So you should, all of our listeners, should definitely pause this episode. Go look it up and then come back, because we're about to have an amazing episode. But thank you so much for joining me here today. It is going to be an absolute rock star of an episode. And I say that because you, you had a thought leadership session at the event that we all went to, and it was phenomenal. You crushed it like could not get enough of you. So so happy that you are here today to share some of that with our audience. So with that, please introduce yourself, say hi and give our listeners a little bit of background on you. Okay, thanks
Kes Nielson 02:24
so much for letting me come on here. I'm so excited. Honestly, I, um, I basically, I'm in branding, brand strategy and design at the moment, and it is my jam. It is my jam. It was a long journey to honestly get here and find a piece of my career that I could just absolutely fall into and fall in love with and so I am the founder of my name is Caslen. Hello, and people call me Kess for short, that's that's kind of my nickname around Salt Lake. But oftentimes people read my name Cassia on social media, but I just
03:01
jumped right in, like, We met once, and I was like, your cast of me, that's it. That was
Kes Nielson 03:05
truly it. We were at the table and we were just like, we were just talking so casually, and I loved it so much. Anyway, so I am the founder of brand. We are a branding and design studio here in Utah, and it is growing, and it is everything that I dreamed of. And we're, we're primarily focused on helping female entrepreneurs really master their branding and and understand their vision and get clarity on where they're going with their businesses. And so I think, in a very fast paced, moving world, especially with marketing and and all the different logistics within business operations and sales and all these things branding really brings us back to our core and back to our reason of why it even exists. It's, I think, one of the biggest reasons that we can say our brand, in the long run, could be the most impactful thing for people, for individuals, for for a greater cause, greater than money, and so that's why I went into this business. I my foundation is kind of design in itself. So I'm an absolute design snob and and I always will be, and that's where I'm at. That's where I reside, that's who I am. Okay,
04:16
lovely. I love it so much. So I yeah, I'm so excited for this episode, because I feel like just being a marketer myself, and being in the stage where I'm a generalist, definitely generalist, in the head of marketing position I have at malomo, you can there's a lot of different areas of marketing, but branding, I feel like is one that is people understand that It's so important, like, most, most, right? We're going to generalize, even though, like, I'm pretty opposed to blanket generalizations, but we're going to do it for fun. People understand the influence of marketing and of branding. Specifically, when you're buying with someone, it's like that extra, I guess, explainer of, why do you go with that person? Over this other brand saying, if they're the the exact two same products. And I can't wait for this episode, because I feel like we're going to get into the nitty gritty of it, which is so fun for something like branding, because it is so universal, but so unique at the same time, where it's like everyone knows that it's important, but everyone's trying to figure it out still, like everyone is like, what is our brand? Why is it important? Why does it resonate? Sometimes it like changes based off of your consumer and based off of what the your consumer cares about, and all this fun stuff. So I say that to ask you, when you think about branding at its core, can you share with our audience, of, like, I guess, the qualifiers, or the things that you're looking at with the companies that you're working with, of, you know, like, Okay, this is, this is, like, a non or a essential, a non, non negotiable thing for, like, you know, something that you're trying to stand out against, with, with a company's brand. Yeah,
Kes Nielson 05:59
absolutely. I think, I think sometimes, I think the most common thought about what branding even is is people are like, Oh, it's my logo, my color palettes, my fonts. And that's kind of typically what we go to when we say branding. And although, yes, those labels, those visual assets, do, they're a piece of branding, but they aren't the they aren't branding in its totality. And I think branding hits all of the touch points, all of the the important touch points of a business. And really the goal is to find that emotional connection that you can make as a business with your audience. And the goal here, it is truly long term. It's it's lifetime value. It is long term relationship. It is loyal customers. And we see that when people are focused on brand management within their business, that there is an insane rate for retention and brand presence in general when it's used through messaging and when it's used in the customer the customer experience, and when it's used in design, we're seeing like an increase of revenue by 20, at least 23% if not more. And so that's just revenue alone. In terms of customer loyalty, there's definitely a piece of branding that influences that, again, that long term relationship, and I think that's kind of the overall goal here. So some things I'm thinking about in terms of, like branding our customer loyalty and brand trust and that emotional connection brand advocacy, like, Are my, are my customers saying, Hey, this is the brand. This is the one that you need to go to, because there's no other type of trust, like word of mouth, especially when it's like close friends or close family, there's this insane statistic that's like 92 or it was like 92 to 95% of consumers who trust a brand and trust recommendations will, they'll. That's like the conversion rate is the 92% I think that's just bizarre. And so the goal here, I think the goal for branding is honestly just repeat purchases, and it all comes down to kind of experience in general and how people are interacting with the brand. So, so, yeah, lots of numbers, sorry, I just threw your way and lots of different I love it. I love it with everything, but, but, but that's kind of what we're focused on, is we're focusing on the experience and the experience right now. And the cool thing about branding is, like it's meant to be laid as a foundation to visualize the future of the brand so that you can act right now. I think in business, sometimes we get caught up again in that, like, Okay, well, what's the next sale? How am I going to make money? And we know where we want to go, but we don't necessarily know, like, the state, the steps on how to get there. So does that answer your question? Yes,
08:55
that's perfect. No, it's better than the answer I could have anticipated. And I love the breakdown of trying to think about branding in a way that it's just repeat purchases leading to more revenue. Because I think, and I wouldn't, I'm not experienced enough on specific brand knowledge to see if, like, Okay, this assumption of mine, which is, is Is it because they're the marketing tools that we're able to attribute? You know, like this, this customer is coming from social, but then, you know, first, first interaction is on social, but then takes a month, and then goes to your website because they're in need of, say, it's a dress, right? Like I'm in wedding season. So dresses are top of mind, not my own, not my own bridesmaids. I saw the collapse, and I was like, no, no. I definitely said that in a funny way, for the consumer that is looking at is looking at something, and you can't even tell that it's like a really cohesive experience, like it's just. The assumption that's where that branding comes into play. And I love that point that you made about seeing the actual revenue dollars come back to branding, because I feel like that's one. And I'd be curious to hear your your opinion on this, because I feel like that's one of the reasons that brands, especially if they're just starting out, don't invest in their branding, and don't think about this storyline of like all the different steps to get to where they want to go because they don't know, or they don't see, or they haven't been able to track how that's impacting their bottom line, which, when you're at that stage of a business where it's like, you know, you are cutting every corner that you can to save money and to get the business to where you need it to be, so that you can stop trying to cut corners. I'd be curious, do you think that's why, you know, like the brands that you're working with come to you and like, they're already, you know, they're already a business, but it wasn't, perhaps the first thing that they're like, Okay, we have the logo. Check it off the list. Like, branding is done and that's it. They kind of have to come back and be like, What is the story we're trying to tell? How are we retaining our customers? Why are they loyal to us? They have to do, like, kind of a post op, I guess, assessment or audit, of trying to look at, you know, now that we know our consumer a little bit more, they can dive into it.
Kes Nielson 11:23
Yeah, I think business is linear. It's very step by step, and we kind of understand the logistics of how it goes through and through, right? But let me paint even a fuller picture. How much money are we actually spending on new leads? Okay? Maybe it's not even a time or maybe it's not even a money investment. Maybe it's a time investment. How much are we putting out there? That is like we're just hoping people are gonna grab the thing, right? It's, it's one of those things where branding, it is so much easier to get someone to repurchase a product because it was so damn good, because it was so quality driven, because, for some reason that one headline or that one piece of the product design just created so much ease for someone. I think the crossover between branding and business is truly the customer. This is all about the customer. This is all about fulfilling a very specific desire that they are looking for. And if we think about the money, how easy it is for high level entrepreneurs to just keep throwing money at marketing and being like, Okay, well, it's this much. ROI, it's like, Keba, what about the people who have already purchased from you? Their experience is so much their feedback in general is going to be so much more valuable to you, because they've already gone through the process. They've already taken a piece of the cake that you've created them, and now it's time to just make everything better, to improve, right? That's what this is kind of about. And I think, I think the easiest people to get, to get to love to get to love branding, truly is those operators and the people who are running the ads. Because, yes, I can throw money out into the abyss and be like, Okay, well, new customers, new customers. It doesn't matter how many new customers you bring in if you can't even retain the ones that are already in the door, right? So what was the question? I
13:29
love us, because we're just gonna go on, like so many different tangents, and that's that's exactly the way I have it on this podcast. But it's just the funniest thing, because I'm like us two, both will just do it and it'll be so fun. But no, you, you, you hit it on the head, like, the fact that I, and I love the like intersection, the visualization of business and branding, because that is the core, that's the the core of the question that I was asking is like, how do you, how do you even start to break down something that seems like it's a bigger, you know, it's like a huge, huge, I don't want to say abyss, but for lack of better word, like, it's a huge abyss for a lot of people, just like, a huge black box of like, where do we even go? And I think the point that you made about, don't forget about the people that have already shopped with you, like, if they haven't had a great experience, and they're going to come back to talk with you. And on the malomo side of things, we obviously have we look at that during the order tracking experience. So post purchase side of things, of like, okay, someone literally just bought with you. That's like, the beginning of your customer relationship as them as a customer, not as someone that you're trying to get to become a customer. So how do you then, you know, like it's you start on this whole new customer journey of, okay, they're going to experience their your product for some reason or another, they purchased with you. So how can you make sure that, like that back end experience, that post purchase experience, is a great one, and this is where I think branding a lot of the times. People think about it. On the acquisition side of the pre purchase, a customer is like just becoming aware of your brand, or is, you know, considering shopping with you, or is on your website, and that's where they see the brand. But to your point of it's so tied to retention and repeat purchases and lifetime value. If you can get that experience if you can get that branding to really speak to the reasons why someone is choosing you as a customer or as a brand to shop with. I love I love that point, and you don't want to forget about the people who have already shopped with you, and that's one of the things that you were discussing as you were talking to the group of female founders at the Black Friday Cyber Monday boot camp is like Black Friday Cyber Monday is the perfect example for that, for e commerce founders, where a lot of the focus is, you know, how do we raise our ad spend? How do we make sure our email campaigns are ready to go out? How do we do x, y, z? And a lot of the times it's focused in new, new business, new creating new, you know, like stacking up your email list and making sure that you have a healthy one so that you can email all of them the discounts that you have during during the holiday season. But some brands also don't think about okay. What is the different segment of, okay, someone just purchased with me, whatever, two days ago or two months ago. And maybe they, you know, don't need my product, depending on what it is, they don't need my product for this. How can I rephrase it to be like, Oh, get our product as a gift for someone? Or, like, thinking about all the different ways of why, or all the different reasons someone's shopping with you. I think Black Friday, Cyber Monday is a perfect example about that, where it's like, there's so much potential to tap into repeat customers if you can do it right and take the time to look through, like, what is their experience with our brand? Yeah,
Kes Nielson 16:55
I think, I think you, yeah, I think it's, I think you're completely right. When I was talking about that event, honestly, what it came down to was what Black Friday has turned into, is very baity. It feels very and it's gotten a little bit sloppy and a little inauthentic and unorganic in terms of allowing people to experience your brand for the first time with high quality. It's just become such a cheap sale. And I think, I think when we can kind of pull ourselves away from the money aspect again and just again, remind people, this is our opportunity to kind of tell the story, not just remind people. Maybe it's reminding people that have already purchased from us, hey, like, this is what we can accomplish for you. But it's also one of those things where it's like, Hey, if you haven't ever bought from us before, this is probably prime time. But remember that this is the salute. This is the solution that we're providing you. This is how, this is what you're going to get from us, right? And, and I also talked to that event, like, the biggest difference in, well, okay, I talked about the masculine and feminine energy, right? This was, like, my favorite part, and I talk about it way too often. It's quite I loved it, so please tell us about it. I feel like, okay, so I we can take masculine energy and kind of feminine energy and we understand kind of the dynamic that it is. I'm not talking about gender whatsoever. I'm talking about the energy, the kind of traditional sense of how we lean into certain roles in society, very masculine is very data driven, very analytical. They're very structured. It's very conquer, dominate, achieve power, right? There's like this hierarchy focus. And in business, it's, it's quite often all about making money quickly, and the strategies are often linear, similar to what I've discussed in business, right? But then there's this feminine side that naturally comes up for a woman, and I'll preface with this, women are still new to business. We haven't been in business very long, and even just a decade ago, there weren't many high level business women that we could, like, really look up to, and really we were all listening to Tony Robbins. We're gonna say, You know what I mean, like, and there's nothing wrong with that. But there is this, there is this feminine tone that you can find in the business world where a powerhouse woman will step up to the plate, and all of a sudden there's this prioritization of connection, of empathy, of emotional resonance, of community, especially community. A lot of the brands I've worked with have this very focus, like this huge focus on community. Whereas under the men that I've I've, like the the male founded businesses that I've been in, they there's more of a focus on the money side of things, and I've been in both sides, so it's like there's a clear difference. And in the feminine side, this is where they start to value that flexibility, the creativity, the empowerment. And I think that's kind of where branding starts to kind of come into business a little bit, where it's business is linear, and then branding is more that. Intuitive approach, because you're thinking about the future, but you're implementing right now. So there's, like, this more open and personal approach to things, and all of that kind of comes together to create, again, that one experience that is going to blow things out of the water. I think it's more intentional for businesses when it comes to, like, Black Friday. I've been in businesses that are like, okay, Black Friday is in a month, so we need to get all of this together, and the entire marketing team and the creative team and everyone is just scrambling to make it work. But instead, we have this opportunities as brands to be way more intentional about this at the beginning of the year and saying, Okay, listen, Black Friday is going to be different this year because of XYZ. There's a debriefing period from last year and there's an onboarding period from this year. How can we come together and create one campaign, one experience that is going to blow things out of the water? Right? You can put all the different goals you want around it, but I think when we come together collectively to brainstorm one message and one set of like, one direction, one art direction, one offer. I think we impress people because then again, it takes out the sloppiness. It removes us from that kind of creating chaos that we often see in Black Friday. And so I think we could just all be a little bit more intuitive in that side of things and in the sales side of things you talked about, like the post purchase experience, right? Like, there's, there's really an opportunity to cultivate, let's say, through an email sequence, because that's familiar to us, right? There's that like, Hey, you bought this. Hey, do you remember you bought this? How about a review? Hey, how about this thing that you bought? You also might like this. Do you know how obnoxious that is? Like, I'm like, tapping on someone's brain, like, hey, remember me. Remember me? Remember it's like, we don't need to be that redundant. Truly, I think we there can be this kind of softer side of things where we're approaching it just a little bit more friendly with our customers. Instead of being that obnoxious friend that is coming up to you and being like, remember me? Do you remember me? Please
22:11
be my friend. Yeah. No, I love that, that viewpoint, that the colorization of like, it's such a spectrum of branding and business and trying to couple it together. And I feel like the like every i A lot of the times it's, it's great that I can see over three years of being an E commerce, like, all the details, all the intentionality that most founders, especially, you know, startups where they're not, you know, the like, top player in the game, they have to be intentional, because that is what they have, right? Like, there's reasons why innovation pushes out or pushes other big players who have been around in the space for a long time to rethink the things that they're doing. And I feel like right now, in E commerce, there's that going on with the customer experience. Of like, hey, no, no, you you can't get away with these tactics of being super annoying in someone's inbox. Of like, remember me. Remember me. Remember me. Because everyone already is doing that. So it's like, then it becomes white noise. So then you want to pull back and be like, you know, what is that? What is the thing that we actually care about sending to our customer, and what's actually valuable for them? And I feel like what you said around the post purchase experience is exactly that, where it's like, okay, there's this one way of, you know, e commerce right now, of of branding, or whatever you want to apply it to, even, like, take yourself out of working in the space like we do as a consumer, you feel it right. Like there's some emails that you open if you're if you're like me, there's a lot that you don't. And so it's like, how can you capture that attention? And that's where I think branding comes in. Because if you can have that reputation for being funny or being entertaining, like, that's the social commodity right now, or one of them, at least, of just like people want to see the brands that they're shopping with have a personality at least, like the the like, quote, unquote consumer for a D to C Company, like, some people don't care about that, right? And they're just not going to care about it. But I think the newer, the newer age consumer is like looking on their on a brand's Instagram to see what their esthetic is. They're looking at their twitter to see if they have funny tweets, like they're they're all these different branded elements that compose the experience. And I think they just if you can get it to where it's cohesive amongst different platforms. Your email example is perfect for that, because it's like, how can you just sprinkle in a little bit of, like, soft marketing, but also be like, funny or approachable in your emails? And then someone's like, oh, yeah, like, I actually was in the market for something or, like, right now I'm not, but I might be in whatever. For X amount of time. So I think that's a great, great example.
Kes Nielson 25:03
Yeah, I feel like, I feel like branding is one of those things that there's so many pieces to it, but the goal of a brand strategy is to really lay that foundation to where team members, team members are doing a good job of really integrating branding into their craft. Branding has to do with the marketing person. Branding has to do with the designer. It has to do with the person who's posting on social media. It has to do with the directors and how they're integrating, you know, sales system. So it's one of those things where I think a good brand strategy truly is defining the personality, setting the tone, and feeling out what that looks like, on the on the customer journey itself. I think especially with marketing, it's become very copy, paste. Oh, this person's doing that, so we need to do that. It's like we can put our blinders on and block everyone out and say, no, what do our customers want? And the cool thing about branding is that it is treated as a there's no one size fits all. There's no copy and paste. You can't because then you end up turning into some cookie cutter brand that is blending in in the background, and no one's seeing you and no one's hearing your voice because you're saying what everyone else is saying. And so the cool thing about branding, and if we're really doing it right, we're standing out like a sore thumb, like we are standing out in our messaging. We're standing out in our methods and how we're approaching our existing customers and how we're approaching our new customers. And so I think the best executives are hiring people who are just doing it different. And I think for creative leaders, they're like, oh, like, do they do a really good job in the technical side? It's like, yes, there's some creative technical skill that is very needed. But also is that person thinking differently? Like, I think we can treat our interviews a little bit differently too, you know, where we're asking more difficult questions that are allowing us to see true colors of our employees. And branding also goes internally, and not necessarily the outside facing part of the brand, but there's an internal facing part of the brand where it's like, culturally, how am I treating my employees? Are they on board with the vision? Do they get it? Are they really painting the full picture? I worked for a company that literally just posted their vision and their mission on the wall, and they were like, got
27:32
it. And we were like, exactly, thank you. Yeah, it became a checklist,
Kes Nielson 27:37
and it's like, no, truly. How are people experiencing the brand internally? How are they experiencing the brand externally? Reputation is everything, because reputation equals loyalty. And again, this comes back to that consumer facing aspect, where it's like, this is about this is about reflecting who we are and the only people, the only person who could really do that well is the founder, because once they paint the picture and they help people understand, this is why we exist. This is what's most important, then that's going to be translated to executives, to the directors, to the rest of the teams. And if it's money, it's clear that it's money from a customer facing side of things. And we all, we've all experienced this because we're all consumers who has the worst strategy, who has the worst like brand experience that we're like, we're never purchasing from that person again. Yeah. So take a step back. We put ourselves in our customer shoes. I think there's this advantage, this true advantage that we get to have, and that's what makes branding so crucial right now. And I actually shared this statistic at that same event that we were at, but, and I don't remember what it is, but it basically said, Gen Z, there's an emotional intelligence that is surging in society, and we need to become so freaking involved in that emotional intelligence, because we are the previous generation. There is a new generation that has a new type of awareness that if we don't understand, if we don't try to tap into that emotional awareness that they're feeling, then we will net, we won't last the next 1020, years. Our businesses will last. And so I think it's cool, because as individuals, we get to tap into that awareness. We get to tap into that that that conscious, that type of consciousness, to really put ourselves in the consumer shoes, put ourselves outside of the box and think differently. I think it's a challenge, but it's a challenge that's worth facing. You know, yeah, yeah. Of course,
29:41
I feel like too one of the things and I remember that stat as well. I definitely wrote it down in my notebook so I can fact check. But the influence, and I feel like, a lot of the times, it's easy to write off certain like stats about that where like, What, no, like that can't be true, but like it will be it. And one of the things that I see, just like time and time and like again, is the people that put themselves out there, like I see this on Tiktok as a consumer and just as a marketer, like observing things. And I talk about Tiktok so much because I just like it is such an interesting case study to me. But that's like going to be studied for years and years and years and so to see people who will be just like, naturally funny or naturally unique, that's what goes viral. And then you get all these other people jumping on the bandwagon, of course, like, do the same trend, do the same thing, but like that one person that starts it, or that you see first, you know, whatever, call it the first, like, 10 or 20, or whatever, amount of people that do it, first you see it, and you're like, god damn it. Why didn't I think of that? And that's how I feel, like people get trapped, like marketers get trapped in that, because you see something good, and you're like, I want that like, I I'm jealous, and I want that to have been me who thought of that idea. And even if it's like, you can just create, like, take the trending moment and then put your own little spin on it. Like, even if it's just the text that you're changing, those are the little things that it's like, Okay, other people are going to notice. And so to your point that it's like, we really have to be in tune with the cunningness there, the emotional intelligence of like, it is not just, yeah, it's like, silly on surface level, because a lot of the times like trends and like silly songs and dancing and all that stuff. But I'm like, as a marketer, you have to ask yourself, why, if you're calling it city silly? Like, yes, that's true, but it also can be very impactful and, like, intentionally important. It's like, you have to recognize, yes, it's silly, but that's people craving entertainment and just wanting to go and forget about other hardships in life, or other other things, if they just want that, like a little bit of uniqueness, or we've been put into these boxes that people are like begging to be taken out of. So it's like, there is, yes, there is those moments where it's like, that is silly, or like, Whoa, that's a big swing, or whatever else. And sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't, but looking like a step or two further is the most fascinating thing to me, of like, okay, what are they trying to share about their brand in that moment? It's that they have a personality. It's that they can get they know their consumer so well that they can make them laugh and feel like a friend, even though there's not like a, you know, it's like a parasocial relationship or something that you have with podcasters, where it's like you really engage with someone through this medium, but you wouldn't be, you know, you're not on your couch in your living room having a relationship that we've you know, that's a traditional in person, like personal friend relationship. So that's how, like, I when I'm trying to break it down, and in my best moments, I'm like, Oh, my God, that is, like, so genius, because it's not just hitting on, like, the entertainment side of things, but it's also so aligned with their brand that you're like, God, that's good. Yeah, wow. I
Kes Nielson 32:57
had like, a flashback moment when you were talking. I remember I a lot of people have said to me, like, what? Like, how do you how are you so challenging to be so different and things like that, you know what I mean? And it's like, I'm in the Utah bubble too. You know what I mean about if you know what we're talking about, um, where we kind of fall into the trap of, like, falling into trends that don't necessarily feel authentic to us, but we're like, oh, but maybe this could be part of my identity. And there's no there's absolutely nothing wrong with exploring. But I just had this flashback to when I was kid, a kid, and I remember my dad telling me, like, like, No, we're the trendsetters in this family. Because it was true. We felt that when we would go, like, thrift shopping together, like my dad, we would like, like, there was, like, I get overalls, and all of a sudden, you know, a few months later, everyone's wearing overalls. And I was like, Well, I'm, you know, I'm cooler one who did it. I brought this back and and I frightened myself so much in it, but I'm not gonna lie, like, I'm starting to realize that it's one of those things that I think, I think I cultivated like in a younger mindset, and it kind of just became automatic as I grew older. And I think branding is also that piece that that does the same thing. It almost starts out with a mindset where you have to get out of putting yourself in a very linear system or an organized system, and challenging your own norms in your own brain, right? And I think branding when it's in internally, when it's like successful internally, our leaders are truly encouraging us to do the exact same, right? And there's going to be a point where we are automatically trying to, you know, do something different, and things like that. But it's just so fun. It's so fun to hear all of like, how, how it kind of all comes together. I don't think I've ever really had, like, a an in depth conversation with someone so immersive marketing like yourself, or E commerce marketing like yourself, where it's like we get to kind of blend to. Worlds that one talks about sales right now and in the next month or two or three or four, whereas branding is talking about the next five years, the next 10 years, the next 20 years, you know. And that's a really cool conversation to have. I like it, yeah,
35:15
yeah. It's no, this is, can you tell why I like podcasting now? Yes, it's fun. Yeah, yeah, no, I completely agree. And it's definitely some of my appreciation and previous, previous studies of neuroscience, of just like, understanding people and the reasons that they do things. And obviously it's very tied into marketing, and I would love to kind of talk about because obviously we're, like, breaking down branding from every, every single point of view that we possibly can of, just like social norms and and seeing you know what like customers want, what brands want. And I would love to hear from you about some of the collaborations and partnerships that you've been able to really dive in head first to practice these things, because I feel like that's that's that's one of the most fascinating parts. And if you know, from what I gather, you're similar, like, similar minded to me. Of like, love brainstorming, but then also love executing on things I would love for you to share with our listeners. Of like, some of when you think about, you know, top three, or whatever, number of you know, collaborations that you've like, been like, hell yeah, we did it like we thought about this and we we went and we conquered. Um, I think it would be really, really fun for our listeners to hear,
Kes Nielson 36:28
yeah. Um, wow, that's a really good question. Um, I feel like, I feel like my favorite projects to work on are honestly the ones where I get to work directly with the founder and we get to establish that foundation that the rest of the team gets to build on. I do think when we've gotten executives, like, involved, it tends to get Messier, because now you have too many hands in the pot, and everyone's like, whoa. You know, like,
36:55
let's create. Everyone's like, kids would like paint and like, finger painting, just like, Absolutely so many different colors going on.
Kes Nielson 37:02
Oh my gosh, truly, and I my favorite. I'm not a very reward driven person, which I don't know how I ended up in the entrepreneurial spot, but I did because, because I'm passionate about it anyways. But I do. I'm working on a campaign right now, actually, with FA dv, the fight against domestic violence, which is such a heavier topic, and and it's, it's hard, it's hard to kind of bring some awareness around it, because oftentimes, I think we want to turn the other way, and we want to maybe acknowledge that it exists, but we don't necessarily know how to approach what to do with it. And I think the cool thing about this experience, when we got onto that initial call, it was like, Hey, we're coming up with this campaign. We're going to launch it at this gala, and we want to bring awareness that only 26% of Utah believes that domestic violence is even a thing, that it's even a thing that's happening in the home. But the statistic that was researched was that one in three Utah women will experience domestic violence in their lifetime. So you take a heavy topic like that, and you're like, holy shit. Like, what? Okay, how do we build around this, right? And my background is in desire based marketing, so I was like, how do we flip this? That's where my mind goes. I'm like, How do we turn this, like, sad topic into something that is very hopeful and encouraging and empowering Utahns to take some kind of awareness around it. And so the challenge has been exactly that, and they're about to launch the campaign. I think tomorrow is the gala. So whatever this, wow, yeah, what timing? But it has been, it has been interesting to work on assets that have to do with anger yet sadness, and bringing it into a space where it truly is, like very empowering. And so what we ended up doing, we ended up creating a really, an in depth creative strategy that really took particular elements this. This campaign's called Dear Utah. Hopefully it's live online by the time this is live and you can look it up. But it's called Dear Utah, and it is a little bit of a softer approach, but the statistic and the way that we're centering this message is so direct, and so it's been really incredible to work with the women behind this, the behind F, A, D, V, who are hosting this campaign, because in the in the thick of it, they're really experiencing a lot of the dirty work, right? And so for me to come in and be like, I'm going to make light of this, it was, it's hard to bite it's hard to bite into. And so it's been one of my favorite campaigns to probably work on so far, because it was a challenge. It really felt very challenging. Um, another one. I, I don't know, let's see
39:51
what's I mean, that's a great that's a great example. I mean, that could just be it, right, like, we don't have to go into multiples. And I Yeah, it's. Sounds like it was a very rewarding experience, and in light of you, like, in the fact that you were able to challenge yourself and really push yourself to grow and see what a campaign could look like when you're coming from not, you know, not as fun of an area of like the E commerce. E commerce, oh, my god. E commerce, D to C. World, long day, I guess, um, the E commerce world of like, all, you know, bright colors and all that stuff. And you can look at it as a societal issue like domestic violence, and see, okay, there's so much resiliency in this, in in these survivors. How can I share that message and inspire hope, for people to act and for people to be aware, rather than, you know, trying to inspire brand loyalty, or the things that we've talked about with, like the E commerce side of this conversation, and I think that is, although I don't think for E commerce brands, they're probably looking at campaigns In a similar mind of, like, taking something that's really serious and really sad and really a part of every it touches a lot of people's lives in and out of Utah, to for a brand to hear you say, you know, like, Okay, this is what the proposed, or what the perhaps, typical ideas around a campaign would be, of like, these stats are incredibly sad because they're true, and it is a epidemic. So to hear for any of our E commerce founders out there, of like, how are you challenging yourself? It's the same through line of you are taking something that is hard, like building a business, and you're trying to flip it on its head, and that's exactly the example that you gave of. You're taking something that's hard societally and has a lot of a lot of downstream effects on people's lives, and you're able to say, Okay, this is our current reality. How can we use branding to empower the message of, how do we get this to stop? How do we get people aware? And I think it's a it's a great example to everything that we're talking about with branding, because you can see the impact of a campaign, because that can, like, save someone who is in a abusive relationship right now and can get them out because, simply because you ran a campaign that gives them at least a little bit of solace or awareness of like, oh, it's not just me. There's a lot of unity in that. And I think that's part of, you know, that's like, part of what everyone wants in this world is just to be not, not to be felt alone. And that's what branding does. Like we'll bring it all back to back to a circle of like the part about a a brand's reputation and what they stand for is exactly what brings someone back, whether it's to a campaign to educate them or donate to or I'm not sure what the specific campaign, campaign goals were to or like, attend that Gala, or whatever, whatever way that they can get involved, or if it's to find this product that you really need in your life, and I don't think it's something that we can discount, of like, the power that branding can have on societal issues as well, and that's something we don't get to talk about a lot on this podcast. So I love that you brought up that example.
Kes Nielson 43:28
I honestly like this is this is what this campaign is teaching me, is that I fit best in rooms that are different from who I am at the core, because what I get to bring is a unique perspective, and branding is all about uniqueness. I think life should be about uniqueness and our our own individuality. And where I find my power for conversations around branding, for conversations around ethical sales and intentional design and all these places, is when I'm in a room of people who are looking at their competitors, I think, okay, let's talk about societal awareness. Like it is so easy for us to look at our competitors and be like, Oh, but they're doing it. We need to do it. Or to look at someone else and like, just start this comparison game. It's such a toxic relationship that I think is so easily falling, like, fallen into and and the truth is, is that as a brand, or even as an individual, we are going to work best with people who are opposite with us. And that's just the truth. If we're surrounding ourselves with, like, yes, people get out of that room, right? Like, okay, 1e commerce brand that I am just like bowing to them always is literally lonely ghosts. They're just down the road right, like Provo Utah, lonely ghost. They are partnering with the weirdest they have the weirdest collaborations right now.
Mariah Parsons 44:54
I love that
Kes Nielson 44:56
they partnered with Wendy's. And I was like, why is this genius? Like? This is genius. They're doing things differently, and they're giving themselves the benefit of the doubt of truly not trying to put themselves in their own little bubbles, of looking at other people and what people are doing. They're just truly, truly, authentically doing things different and getting themselves in rooms that are making them truly stand out. So now they've rolled like, we've we're already seeing they're rolling out campaigns with Bay their bays bags. They're rolling out campaigns with and they're sneak peeking this on their Instagram. So people are eating it up. Their communities like, what's next, what's next. And they're the most out there collaborations, right? So it's like, for me, I come from a very e commerce background. Space for me to go from E commerce brands to this now nonprofit organization talking about talking about domestic violence, that was a huge change for me. It was a challenge, and it was the best challenge that I think I made, because I feel like, okay, this is like, impactful. This is going in a really good and intentional direction. And if we're doing something right in our business, it's going to we're going to say that same thing over and over and over again. Oh, we are getting one step closer to that greater vision that's beyond money. Toms is a great example. Tom's Shoes, we all wore them, 2010 if you didn't have them, you were really cool. I'm just doing but like,
46:22
are we? It still resonates with us, like it is, it is a flagship, like a brand who first did that? Yeah, or one of the first
Kes Nielson 46:33
No, they were true. You're right. They were true pioneers and true and really saying, hey, anytime you purchase from us, we're actually going to go give a pair. You know, who? How many people, how many brands started integrating that into their system? And they're like, Yeah, we're doing the same thing, because that's genius. But the truth is, is in their minds, in the founders mind, he was like, Oh, we're taking this. This is my vision. Is that the there's a world where everyone has shoes, where no one has to go around barefoot with the craft that's in the road, right? And he went, and he would deliver these, these shoes to all these orphanages and just lower income societies all around the world. And that was impactful. That is what made Tom's the brand that it is today. So it's like bigger picture. Guys like, zoom out from a product for a second, just for a second. Zoom out from the next sale just for a second. And what is the bigger picture here? What are we trying to truly accomplish, whether it's within ourselves or within another community of people?
47:39
Yeah, I love it, and that's such a good full circle moment, because I don't want to end this podcast episode with you, but I know that you have so many other cool campaigns, so you have to dedicate your gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous mind to so thank you so much for taking the time. Cass. I love that we could kind of go, you know, deeper on some things, and really learn about branding from like a from a perspective of like you are in the thick and thin of it, every single day you're seeing like you are the expert in looking at what are people doing. How are they breaking the system? How are they challenging it? How are they How are e commerce brands and, you know, nonprofits alike, trying to really capitalize on their own story, to really communicate that with their, with their with their audience. And it has been an absolute joy to have met you about like a month ago, I think, and be sitting here. So thank you for making the time. Thank you. Applause.
