Ep.131/ RECHARGE
How the best ecommerce brands power consumer routines with Recharge SVP of Marketing Jen Gray
Mariah Parsons, Head of Marketing at Malomo and Host of Retention Chronicles, and Jen Gray, SVP of Marketing at Recharge, discuss the importance of subscriptions in the Shopify ecosystem. Jen, who transitioned from big tech to Recharge, emphasizes the value of subscriptions in powering consumer routines and driving predictable revenue. They highlight the shift from a goods and services economy to a routine economy, where DTC brands focus on embedding products into daily lives. Jen shares insights on product diversification, such as Casper's transition to a sleep company, and the importance of product positioning and consumer behavior. They also discuss the benefits of subscriptions, including higher customer lifetime value (LTV) and the need for personalized, flexible subscription plans. Recharge is launching the Tomorrow Brand Challenge to support subscription growth, offering $1 million in prizes to three winners.
2:06 Jen Gray's Background and Initial Impressions of Working in Ecommerce
3:40 Core Beliefs and Consumer Behavior for Ecommerce Brands
5:55 Transition from Big Tech to E-Commerce
8:18 Product Diversification and Positioning for Subscription Brands
20:55 Subscriptions and Consumer Routines Are The New Economy
30:44 Best Practices for Subscription Success
37:16 The Routine Economy and Consumer Behavior
41:29 Recharge’s Tomorrow Brand Challenge
Ep.131
JEN GRAY
TRANSCRIPT
This transcript was completed by an automated system, please forgive any grammatical errors.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
product, brands, subscription, consumers, subscribers, customers, routine, great, purchase, recharge, buying, ecommerce email, post-purchase experience, love, talk, goals, company, started, gen z, influencer marketing, aligns,
SPEAKERS
Mariah Parsons, Jen Gray
Mariah Parsons 00:05
Greetings and welcome to retention. Chronicles, the podcast with learnings from expert e commerce brands and partners. I'm your host. Mariah Parsons, if you're here, you're either on a quest for E commerce enlightenment or you accidentally click the wrong link. Either way, I am thrilled you stumbled into our corner of the internet, and I hope you'll stick around. We've got pearls of wisdom for everyone, whether you're running a multi million dollar business or simply just starting out on your entrepreneurial journey. Before we unleash the brilliance of today's guests, let's give a shout out to our podcast sponsor, malomo. Malomo is so much more than just another Shopify app, their post purchase wizards, making beautiful and branded order tracking smoother than a jazz solo. So our amazing founders, like our guests, can keep their customers happy and up to date while they track their orders. So hit that subscribe button like it'll increase your LTV overnight and go listen to our other episodes@gomolomo.com that's G O M, a, l o m, o.com Get ready for insights, chuckles and perhaps a profound realization or two with this newest episode of retention Chronicles. You all right, everyone. Welcome back to retention Chronicles. Super excited to have you here today. Jen. We are so, so excited for this episode. We have been trying to make this happen for way too long. We have just earlier this morning, we were having some issues that issues on my end, with Wi Fi and all that fun stuff. So I'm glad that we're finally hitting record and we can get you on here to talk about all things, subscriptions in the Shopify ecosystem. It's going to be a great time, but before we really get into the nitty gritty of it, I'm going to have you say hi and introduce yourself real quick.
Jen Gray 01:54
Yeah, it's so great to be here. I'm so glad this is finally happening. We've kind of labeled this podcast episode is like the pod, the almost podcast episode for the last couple of months. So I'm glad we're finally doing it, but I'm Jen. I run marketing for recharge, and I've been with the company for about 10 months. And I didn't come from E commerce. I actually came from kind of big tech like Adobe Qualtrics. But what was interesting during my my time interviewing with the company, was I got text messages while I was talking to our CEO from, I think pretty litter and dime beauty, and I think another one who I can't remember. And I was like, I am the ideal customer profile for subscriptions and anything e commerce, product and subscription. I am the ideal customer profile, and so our CEO, our CEO, and I still kind of laugh about that, but huge fan of the space, huge fan of subscriptions and retention overall, and, you know, a huge fan of the E commerce brands we get to work with.
Mariah Parsons 02:52
I love it. I love it. So I know that you are you? We were talking you were based in Salt Lake City. I'm now in Chicago, and that is so like serendipitous or such a simulation moment that as you're talking to recharge, you get, you know, a notification from these companies that you shop with, and you're like, I'm exactly the person that I am anticipating marketing to, which is nice, because you know exactly how they think I've consulted before for An auto care company, and I felt the same way, where I was like, this is exactly I am, exactly their customer. And it was perfect for marketing, where I could say, like, Okay, I have no idea what this mechanical lingo is talking about, right? Like, how can I water it down so that someone who doesn't know anything about cars make it approachable and see like, oh, I actually just need to go to this, this auto care company so that I can get the assistance I need. And it's the same exact thing, right? So our core belief, hearing that,
Jen Gray 03:52
yeah, our core belief really is that the best brands, the brands that are going to have staying power, right? I think e commerce, we've seen the landscape change so many times, and the brands that have staying power really build their entire business around their best fit customers. And when we took a step back, we were like, Okay, what are sort of the demographics of, you know, our deal customer profile for a lot of the brands that we work with. And we really started to break it down. We were like, oh, you know what demographics tell us who our customers are. They don't necessarily tell us what they want. And so we started to go level deeper on sort of consumer behavior. Because recharge just hit 100 million subscribers across our brands this last spring. They were like, We have information. We have lots of information about what these subscribers and what these sort of best fit customers want. And it really was, it was, I am the ideal customer profile because I am busy, like, I have a busy working mother. I have I hold purchasing power for my household, and I am fanatical about my routine. Like, that's really what recharge does we power routines? We power the products that are going to be embedded in the daily lives of consumers. And. And I think that's what gets me really excited, is, how do we think about customer retention strategies as as as it, uh, applies to your consumers, to your consumer behavior, and kind of what problems you're solving for their everyday lives.
Mariah Parsons 05:11
Yeah, and it fits perfectly with this podcast. Obviously, we're always talking about retention and new ideas in the space, and new ways of how to look at what brands are doing and what partners are doing to innovate and reframe, you know, okay, we're seeing these, these ex customers who have who fit this profile. This is what they want, and so that's why I'm so excited to have you here today, because I think we've, we've seen from both the brand and the partner side of this podcast of why subscriptions are advantageous for ecommerce brands, especially if you have customers that want that you know Easy, easy setup. They know what they you know the cadence that they want to buy on. They know that they like this product. But I think the shifting around, trying to think about what routine someone is in, and buying for that routine is something that's a little bit more novel on this podcast, so I'm excited to dive into it with you. Um, can you give us, like, let's, let's look at the transition. Because you've been at recharge for 10 months. What have you taken with you from being in, like, big tech, and how do you see that applying to e commerce? Because I think there's obviously someone's background will will have a nice lens or a nice shadow over what they're doing. So how did you kind of make that transition into E commerce?
Jen Gray 06:27
Yeah, so I think the biggest thing I've realized is that the basics, the basic tenets of subscriptions, like, I think people kind of get and Ted got this a long time ago, like, back in like, 2011 right? Everyone turned to SaaS because, do you know who loves recurring revenue? Investors love recurring revenue, right? You want recurring revenue. You want Predictable Revenue. So subscriptions, we all know, are good for business, but what I think I've made the transition around, is subscriptions are good for consumers. It's good for routines. And so my background is product marketing. That's sort of how I grew up and and marketing, and product marketing and product diversification and going Multi Product is something that I've kind of brought from tech to to e commerce now, and it's so fascinating. I love product positioning. So tech used to do like typical tech companies or vertical SaaS companies start as one type of thing for one type of customer, like, I'll give you an example. I worked for a dental software company, not glamor, not glamorous at all. But they started as appointment reminders for dental offices, and then they they did. They went multiproduct because that, you know, that's kind of what tech companies do. And they started to do online forums, they started to do, yep, to eat up more pieces of that workflow. And so what I did is just translated that to what we're eating up is what e commerce companies are now eating up pieces of a routine. So I think my favorite example of this is like Casper. Casper sold mattresses, right? And that's not really part of somebody's everyday buying routine. And so their product diversification strategy became, what are the things that we could potentially sell that would be more routine for like, you know, sleep masks or sheets or what have you. And they rebranded to be a sleep company. They were no longer a mattress company. They were a sleep company. And I think that the E commerce companies that we see that are doing very, very well. Understand this. They understand product positioning, they understand product diversification, and then that step that they're taking is, okay, how does my entire customer life cycle, my entire retention strategy revolve around routine, and what are the tools that I'm using to kind of power each and every one of those pieces?
Mariah Parsons 08:38
Yeah, it's so fascinating. So I remember we had, are you familiar with electric? They're an agency in the Shopify space. Yeah, they're okay. So we, we work with them pretty frequently, and they affect their founder, Brandon amoroso, came on and he had kind of said, you know, there's, we work with a lot of subscription brands. And he was like, I am a true believer that there can be a subscription for any, any of the industries that we work in. You just have to think about what makes sense. And so he gave the example. Forget this specific example, but this will be close enough of like, okay, if you sell pools or something like that, or you sell mattresses, where it's, you know, a bigger purchase, and you're not going to have higher frequency. It's not, you know, CPG or something similar. How can you find something like a cleaning service or like a cleaning kit or something of the sort, that something someone would rebuy and repurchase to give your business that aspect of a subscription? And since that episode, and that was, you know, early, earlier days of this podcast, I think it's been something that myself and our listeners have tuned into of just, how can you look at, even if you have something like a mattress that isn't going to be, you know, you don't want to have to rebuy a mattress frequently, right then, then you're not going to build. That brand loyalty, if someone's expecting their their purchase to last long. So how can you reframe, Okay, then let's look at making it a little bit broader, once you have a little bit more of your foot in the door in the E commerce space of okay, we, we kind of mastered mattresses as one of our, you know, our stable product. How can we expand our SKUs and then start to grow on okay? Now we can branch into sleep or branch into other areas that are tangential and make sense for our consumers, but isn't, you know, is also a smart play for both our consumers and our business goals? Yeah,
Jen Gray 10:38
I think the three things that I find with product marketing is, first, figure out your category, right? Like, identify what your category is like. Caspers transitioning from a mattress company to a sleep company. Third, figure out your product diversification strategy. Like, like you said, find that replenishable. Tushy is a great example of this. They're a recharge merchant. Shout out to Ren. They sell the days and like, I bought one, I installed it, like, yay. But they're now starting to branch into,
Mariah Parsons 11:07
like, you for doing that. Yes, truly,
Jen Gray 11:09
I still am really proud of that. I feel like tissue should create badges for everyone that that does that. But they branched into, like, toilet paper and candles because, like, how can we stay top of mind for consumers when they're constantly bombarded with options in a day, and is sort of, how can they think about their product diversity diversification strategy to find that replenishable. And then the third piece that I always talk to brands about is, what is your product positioning? Now this is, I think, a really fascinating one from a product marketing background, product good product positioning is, how quickly can someone see their goals in your product? And to me, this is as simple as switching from what do we do to what do we do for you. And tech companies do this too. We're not great at product positioning either. Of like, we're just like, hey, we created this new AI tool, and we're gonna call it Jasper, and we're gonna like, you know, it's like, but what does that actually do? What is that solving for somebody? And so my favorite example of this is Lululemon. I shop Lululemon all the time. I love it. And when you go to their product dropdown, you can search like, leggings or sports bras or, you know, whatever. But this assumes that I know what I'm looking for. So and in lululemon's case, they're right I go to leggings, but then when you're when you sort of position as leggings, you have to explain why your product is better than another legging product, like they have to spend time telling me why the aligned fabric is better than, you know, Set Active or aloe Yoga. But if you go to their drop down on their homepage, they also have by activity where you can search products based off of whether you want to play tennis or if you want to travel or if you want to go hiking, and that makes it easier for somebody to see their goals. And so I find that a lot of brands that quickly product diversify need to really think about their product positioning and the problems that they're solving and root their product positioning in that. Yeah,
Mariah Parsons 13:03
I love that example, and I love how many examples you have off the top of your head, it's like, it's gonna be a it's gonna be a fun time. I can already tell so when you're thinking about or when you're just observing, even someone making that transition of you know, okay, we have our staple product, we want to expand and want to find, you know, in this category, what makes sense for us and start to, I guess, edge towards broadening a catalog. What have you seen? And you can give examples, if you have them or not. What have you seen been like? I guess, pillars of how someone can start to V how someone can start to have their customers view their company in that way with the broader category, is it? Is it a lot of education? Is it a lot of cross sells? Is a lot of target marketing? What have what have you seen of, you know, what's been successful when someone is really trying to capture more of the market?
Jen Gray 13:59
Oh, I think product cross sells are gold, especially for subscribers like and we'll talk about, you know, subscription experience and kind of some things to do there. But I love the idea of testing a new product with your subscribers and trying to kind of figure out what the aligning goals are of, you know, somebody who is purchasing, I don't know, like, a weight loss supplement or something like that. A collagen would be like a great next one. Test it with your subscribers. Test it with the people who are your best fit customers. Like you. Don't necessarily want to test that with one time, because they're like, Is this my ideal customer? Is this person going to turn off in two months? Subscribers? Or
Mariah Parsons 14:35
it might even retaining them harder, because if they have a bad experience with something that's newer than you, know, it's a bigger hill to climb later, and it helps you inform
Jen Gray 14:43
your business strategy. Like that's the biggest part about subscribers. I think subscriptions, in the past, have been looked at a bit as sort of like a one and done. Let's give people 15% off. Let's just make it super convenient and easy, but they're missing sort of that value piece. How can I drive more value from these subscribers? For and from these subscribers. And so I think figuring out your best fit customer and then testing your product strategy. I think that is gold. I just looked it up. Think brick house nutrition, I think is a really good example of this. Figure out your product positioning based off of goals. So, you know, brick house has a green powder. They've got, um, different products for like, different different goals. And I think their product drop down has, like, field of grades is, like, their most popular so, like, they stuck with that. Then they started branching out to like essentials, like, what are the things I need every day? And then they started branching out into, like, sport, like, what are my goals? And so I really like the idea of people, instead of just saying, like, here's our green powder, here's our weight loss, here's our collagen, what are the goals? Is this, like, daily health? Is this, you know, more energy in the morning? Sort of think about what your brand promises. And that's, I think, really interesting for me, is like, as a consumer, I'm not buying products, I'm buying your brand promise, I'm buying better skin, healthy hair, more time in my day, more ease in my morning routine. I'm buying those promises and so making sure that your product positioning and how you name these products and how you you know position them on your website makes sense to what your brand promise is.
Mariah Parsons 16:20
I like that reframing of, it's the motivation, like the buying motivation, of why someone would go and shop with your brand of, like you said, what's the promise that they're going to get? And then also, if you can deliver on that promise, of someone starts to see okay with this, with integrating this product into my daily routine, or into my routine at all and starting to check, you know, trek towards where I want to go. Then you, you, you kind of have that, that that relationship of the consumer trust your product in, that it's want a good product because it's helping them achieve their achieve their goal. And then it's also a, I don't want to say guarantee, because nothing's ever a guarantee, right? Like you just never know what will happen, but it's a bigger probability that you're retaining their business because they are happy with your product. And so I feel like the first thing that's coming to mind with talking about routines and reflecting how I shop as a consumer, because I This is also my I've been in econ for three years now, but at the beginning, I remember, you know, this is, this is such an interesting world to work in, and I started really paying attention to my consumer habits, more so than that before. And I feel like a lot of the rationale between shopping for a routine is the influence of seeing other people's routines on the internet and like, through friends and family. Like, there's a whole market, especially for, like, skincare, beauty, you know, health, like all of, all of that realm that is like, have this routine, have this seven, you know, seven step skincare routine, and have these different products. And there's, there's so many reviews of different routines and different products that it can be kind of crazy. But when we're narrowing it down like this, where it's like, okay, for your specific brand, for your specific customer goals, what should you be tracking towards? I feel like that's a really good takeaway, because I could see, you know, you could, as a brand, you want to market to XYZ routine of take these, this specific pill, and take these, and all these cross sells and upsells, but you have to stay true to, okay, what are our consumers looking at, and what do they want to continue to improve upon, because there's, there's just so much consumption and so much out there that someone you know could find themselves in in deep of like, okay, there's all these different products. And then you get indecision, just, or what is it? Analysis, paralysis, indecision, something, whatever it's called, right? And then, you know, where do you take as a brand, how do you how do you start to simplify it for your customers?
Jen Gray 19:07
So so much to break down in there. I think you're absolutely right. And what I think ends up happening is, when you proc diversify, it's like, okay, what is the strategy? Is your strategy to push all of the products and all of the routine at the same time, which you can do like bundles is a huge thing that recharge does so many of our customers do incredible, you know, bundle options. But I think one example that I love is bare faced, bare faced skincare. I love them. If anyone know, if anyone wants to know, the toning pads are gold, yeah, they're so good. But free shout out, and they're my favorite. But I think their strategy is so brilliant, because their toning pads really are their hero product, like the tip of the spear product, that they know if somebody gets hooked on the toning pads, they're going to be around for a long time. And their strategy is, like, get someone hooked on the toning pads and then, like, further down the road. Like, are you interested in the vitamin C serum? Are you interested in this? So I think it's kind of like you can do both. You can, kind of like, push your entire routine, or you can figure out what that tip of the spear product is, and then push the routine. But I want to talk about the routine economy. That's kind of the thing that we're seeing in consumer behavior. And you broke it down so well. So I think what we're seeing is the rise of DTC brands really was during the goods and services economy, because everyone was just trying to avoid being commoditized. Like the internet was the greatest force of commoditization, because you could instantly compare product to product, and it really just drove people to care about price. And so DDC brands rose up, and it was like, Okay, how can I make, how can I prioritize and own the entire customer experience? How can I build one to one relationships with the people that I that purchase my product, and how can I product, you know, innovate to meet that need? And I think what ended up happening was, then, now we're kind of in the attention economy, which, as you know, influencer marketing is effective, but it is expensive.
Mariah Parsons 21:04
It is expensive self expensive. It's crazy, it's
Jen Gray 21:07
crazy. And so what we're seeing is a new level of economic value, and that is the routine economy, and that in order to stay around with high acquisition costs and fickle consumers like me, you really need to be embedded in the daily lives of your consumers. Like, that's just, that's it. And so when we think about how to evolve, for example, like you mentioned with influencer marketing, influencers are the best way to push routines, right? Because you actually get to see how they use their product in their day to day. Like, I take my creatine powder in the morning with my greens powder. Like, that's, that's how you become part of somebody's routine. But if you are doing influencer marketing and then not pushing to subscriptions, that is just expensive, it's expensive, and it's setting yourself up to fail as well. Because if you sell a product that requires a couple of months of usage to like, see the benefits, you have to push subscriptions like that, that you have to be part of somebody's routine. You have to educate them on, like, Okay, people that used for two months, like, I think array supplements does this very well. They're like, okay, using for two months. You see this, using for three months, you see this. They're constantly advertising the benefits of the usage, because they also know that if someone uses array for a month and doesn't see like, immediate results, like, they won't be super happy. And so, like, if you want to be happy with our product, you product, you got to use it
Mariah Parsons 22:23
for three months. Yeah, yeah, I love that. So I take Mary Ruth's, like, their multivitamins. Okay, yeah, same. But that's a consumer and just in the E commerce space. But I like, I know, because I'm in this space, right? Of Okay, okay, I'm educating myself before I buy. And I saw it through Instagram, I believe, of a creator using it. I was like, Oh, that looks great. And so I, of course, they
Jen Gray 22:50
got me, they got me in that acquisition source as well. I've also purchased Mary with after seeing an influencer, yeah, it totally
Mariah Parsons 22:55
worked. And I was like, Okay, I'm sold. So, but now, like, because I believe the influencer said, like, you have to kind of wait like, three to four months before you start seeing some of the results that you might want. And she was like, it will be a longer game, but I'm telling you, like, these are, you know, before and after do all that jazz, right? But it prefaced me for like, Okay, I know I'm going to have four purchases, because it's monthly, four purchases of this product before I start to really see a difference. And so it's like setting the and we see this in order tracking all the time. Setting the expectation goes such a long way with your customers, of like, even right down to customer education. Order tracking different spaces in the customer experience, because one is pre purchased and one is post but it's the same idea across the board where you're saying, Okay, we know that you know you want you're in this you're interested in something in this realm, for some reason you this Instagram ad or this influencer marketing worked on you, and so now you just have to be aware that this product is going To take a little bit longer to see results with same thing, with order tracking, where, if you go to buy and you think it's going to arrive at your door set by tomorrow, because that's, you know, some of the expectations we have these days with shipping and Amazon Prime, if someone is anticipating that it's going to be, you know, overnight or two day shipping, and they don't get it, and They're annoyed, it doesn't matter whether or not you as a cons, as a customer or as a company. It doesn't matter if that's, you know, quote, unquote, unexpected or, you know, not, not fair or justified, you still have a annoyed customer, and you're the one who has to deal with it. So I love this idea of, you know, advertising results, and the timeline attached to those results. And I think, mix hers, which is another supplement company, they do the same thing where they and I have, like, on the either on the out, like the box, or the actual packets themselves. It says, you know, within three to, I think it's like two to three weeks. There's, I forget, the actual timeline. It'll say, like, okay, you'll start to notice this, and then within six weeks, you'll notice this, and then within two months, you'll notice this. So I love that you're bringing up that in this conversation. Of it's not just having a subscription option, it's how are you telling your customers about what that product actually does when you use it repeatedly.
Jen Gray 25:23
So I think something that I think we're really seeing in consumer behavior is right now, the 40 year old millennial and the 24 year old Gen Z are in charge, like that. That's it like and I fall into that 40 year old millennial. But what I think we're seeing with this kind of dynamic is millennials really crave convenience and and Gen Z really crave value. Like they want to have value out of the things that they purchase. They want to have bang for your buck. And traditional subscriptions have been a bit only focused on convenience, like, how can we just give you a discount and then make sure your product is shipping at the same time where recharge is really taking our brands and our product roadmap is around this value piece of like, how can you then, once somebody becomes a subscriber, how do you what does that experience look like, right? So I'll give you an example. Like, we just released cancelation prevention, and we made this very personalized and very flexible, because every brand is different, um, and what we wanted to offer was like, Okay, uh, you're canceling because you have too much product. Like Mary Ruth is such a great example of this, because it's a liquid which is really hard to measure out. If you are canceling because of too much product, then chances are you're not taking it the way that you should. You're not You're not in taking that liquid as many times as you should, or as much as you should, or every single day. And so it's a great opportunity for brands to, like, educate and be like, Okay, if you're if you have too much product understood, this is really how you should use the product to get the best benefit. Let's give you a free different flavor or something else to keep that person subscribed and give them options to like, adjust their frequency of like, okay, also, if maybe you don't use this as much as you thought you were going to like for I don't know, a laundry detergent or something else, you can then change your frequency. Or for Lola, they're like, a feminine hygiene company. They did a cancelation survey and found that offers based on cancelation reasons, like, actually wasn't moving the needle much for them. It does for other brands. But for Lola, they were, like, actually a blanket 20% off discount keeps people more and so that's kind of been our ethos is like, how can brands intercept and engage with their subscribers in a way that is very personalized, very dynamic, very flexible depending on their consumer behavior? Yeah,
Mariah Parsons 27:39
I love that. So two notes with Mary Ruth's that example, I'll even say, like, I know sometimes, if I'm traveling a lot, it's a liquid product that needs to be in the fridge, right? Like, I I'm not taking that big bottle with me. I try to, but something like that, where it's like, you also have to recognize travel restrictions if you have someone who's at home every day, versus, you know, out and about, and isn't in tablet form or something that maybe you could fly with, or is easily transportable because you don't want liquids to spill, and if you don't have access to a colder environment, yeah, a while of time, then you, you know, you don't want to ruin the rest of the product. So, like, I know I, if I have a big travel month coming up, it's like, I need to pause this, for the month, because it'll just go to waste if I try and bring it around town with me, right? And then the Lola's example, I love that you brought up that it isn't just, you know, a blanket, 111, shoe fits all for every single brand. And so my question for you is, do you know like it within trying to find, let's take this example of the cancelation prevention, trying to, like, a B test, what is working with, you know, certain brands, or what's working with certain customers. And that's something that I assume can be done within the recharge platform. And that's how, you know, like Lola was able to figure that out, am I right and correct and right? And assuming that
Jen Gray 29:01
absolutely, that was like the number one tenant that we had. Because again, we have witnessed like, recharge has been around for 10 years, which is, like, kind of wild when you think about e commerce companies, like, we've seen it all like, when we've really been through some ups and downs, we've definitely been through some ups
Mariah Parsons 29:19
and downs, but over the last five years, yeah,
Jen Gray 29:22
we're all, we're all collectively, trauma bonded, actually, as an E commerce ecosystem. But that was the core tenet of how we built these products, was that you could AB test like, AB test a discount and offer a free gift like, so that you really understand. We wanted to actually empower marketers, marketers that are building these flows of like, what cancelation prevention should look like, what your reward strategy should look like, what your free gift on order number four should look like. We wanted to make sure that you could easily design that and test it before you roll it out to your entire consumer base. And then also, we wanted to make it flexible, that it's like, what's another good example of this? Ollie, pop. Mm. Lollipop started. I know I love lollipop. I was speaking to their head of customer experience, and they were like, our customer used to be me. It used to be like this woman that wanted that had gut issues. Like, you know, hot girls have gut, gut issues. Yeah, that was their customer. But as soon as they went more omni channel, their customer now is like someone in the Midwest, like a man in the Midwest that's just trying to cut out Diet Coke. And so we wanted to make sure that, like, our tools were as flexible as as as the landscape changes like, I think e commerce brands change so quickly, and their consumer behavior changes so quickly, depending on, you know, tons of different things. So that was a core tenet. Was like, how can we make it really easy to build, really easy to test and really easy to customize and personalize.
Mariah Parsons 30:44
I love that, so let's take, you know, all the possibilities that we've been talking about and talk best practices. Because I know our listeners know you always have to apply what we're saying here to your specific brand and your specific industry, like you know what is best for you all, but it's always a helpful guiding post to have, okay, what? What are the best practices that you're seeing when it comes to trying to, you know, charge forward in the routine economy, and trying to make sure that you're offering the best for your customers, but doing in a smart way that's also beneficial for your business goals. So I
Jen Gray 31:17
think the very, very first thing you need to do is figure out what your goals are around subscription success. I think, Oh, we talked to a brand who, I think, did 10% of their revenue on subscription, but when we showed them actually the analysis of their of their subscribers, their subscribers were worth seven times more than a one time, and we were like, man, if you could just get subscriptions up to like, 15% or even 20% like, this would be huge for you. And so I think figuring out what that pillar is that that you can talk to your C suite, you could talk to your leadership team, because you're going to need focus on this. You're going to need to put focus on your subscription program. It's not just a widget. You're not if the companies that come to us are like, we just want to Subscribe and Save widget. We're like, you can do that cheaper. Like, yeah, do that other ways. But if you want to actually build your business around your best fit customers, start with, figure out what your North Star is. Then I think the second piece is make subscribe subscriptions the star of your show, like the star of your website. I think who are some good examples of this, Vega more. Vega more, which is a great one, because you have to use that product for a certain amount of months before you see results. They have like in the nav bar, they have a subscription benefit landing page. They have all the benefits listed on their PDP. Same with array. Array has like you. You go to their checkout for array bloat, which is like, their most popular product, and I'm a huge fan as well. You get a free l glutamine. You get to choose your frequency. And then there's like, a little button that says, Why subscribe? And they talk about all the rewards you get as a subscriber. Like that is such a perfect example. And then I think lastly, figure out what that entire subscription life cycle, which is like, why we love malomo, because it's like, what is the pre purchase? What is the post purchase? Look like? How can you treat that differently? And I know malomo does a great job with this of like, the post, the post check out, order tracking. You can segment based on subscribers. So like, what a great opportunity to not upsell someone to a subscription because they're already subscribed. But like, show them the benefits. Give them an education video, give them a discount for referring a friend like you can use that experience and tailor it just your subscribers. Yeah,
Mariah Parsons 33:27
yeah. I love that. And so the I want to hone in on, like, step by step. So figuring out those subscription goals, one piece that you said that stuck out to me is looking at like the metrics of, okay, your LTV, your AOV, of your subscribers, a lot of the times, it tends to be more than first time buyers. And so we see, we see that as well, where if you can capitalize on an extra 5% it makes your long term goals way more efficient, because you have a lower CAC cost, lower cost LTV and a higher LTV. And so I think getting the buy in from, you know, like any, any marketer, and I just read data driven marketing, and so it is very top of mind right now, where trying to turn a goal, especially marketing, right? Like, we're always top of mind is, how can you quantify something that is, you know, traditionally, and I'm talking to you, like, 20 years, 15 years in the past, of, okay, you didn't really have the technology or the understanding to be able to draw conclusions. Of, like, Okay, I see the the pathway of this customer, but getting your C suite to buy in with, like these numbers of look, if we just can get five more percent growth in our subscribers, this is going to lead to X amount of revenue. That is a huge, huge, huge chess piece to hold and say, like, Okay, we understand this from the back end, business side. And then I also want to tie in what you were saying. Earlier of that is also valuable to your consumers. Like, if you're, if you're, we'll take the, we'll call it like, two ICPs, where you said, you know, you have the, I want something with convenience for millennials, and then you want value for Gen Z years. If you can take both of those ICPs and say, like, okay, it's convenient and it's hitting what those, what that ICP needs, so what that, what those customers need? Of it's convenient because you have that purchasing frequency already set up subscribers, they're going to love that, right? If you can just get that buy in for those extra, let's say, 5% of subscribers, and then for those Gen Z ers, if you already have something that is a value, and they're finding value, and you're making good on that promise, that brand promise, that they're seeing the results eventually, you know, in that timeline that we spoke about, then you're really able to capitalize on that, the the first pillar, that first best practice, of defining those goals, and then you're able to see, you know, what is, what is that extra, extra little mile of Also, take it, not just for your business values, but also what's going to be valuable about that subscription for your for your customers. Because I feel like, as a consumer, that's where I start to if I don't see a value of a subscription, I don't like the idea of just, you know, tossing away money, like, I'm pretty, I'm pretty on top of my finances, right? And so if there's something that I'm not seeing value in, I'm going to cancel that subscription. But if there's something that I see that is even if it's a little bit higher of a price point, but I like the idea of, you know, how that the how that business is packaging their products, or how it's being delivered to me of, okay, like, I use bite toothpaste, right? Like, little tooth toothpaste tablets, because it's less plastic, and I like that idea. It aligns with my, you know, what I want to how I want to be living my life. Then I'm going to keep that subscription, even if it's a little bit more expensive, um, of a buying point, just because it, it aligns with those values. So I think those, those three best practices that you laid out is is something that is applicable to any of the brands that you know we're we're working with on the daily, or any of them that are listening to this podcast.
Jen Gray 37:12
The crux of the routine economy actually, is exactly that. I think what we're really seeing too, with Gen Z and millennials is like the common thread, unfortunately, is anxiety. Millennials and Gen Z are entering this world with so much more anxiety than than than we've ever seen before, and it's financial anxiety. It's, you know, societal upheaval. It's the rising interest rates. It's rising costs to do anything. And what we see in consumers is they're choosing to spend money, they're choosing to splurge. They're choosing to spend money on luxury items that elevate their everyday and so this is really the crux of it. Is like, how can you sit at the intersection of convenience and value and make that an easy and delightful experience like this is the biggest thing for me. Like you said, it's like, I will remain subscribed if you give me things, yeah, if you give me fun discounts, like, ultimately benefits, give me benefits and make it fun. Like, I think packaging also is, like, such an underutilized tool. Like, how can you make me excited about my toilet paper renewal? Like, something that crap is great
Mariah Parsons 38:19
on that, like, fun, little silly printed paper, you know, like, it'll
Jen Gray 38:24
be fun, it's easy. And I'm also like, What a delightful moment in my day to, like, give me a moment of joy. I think oats overnight is a great example of this, too. They they give subscribers, like, first looks at exclusive flavors that they're testing, which I just think is so fun. It's just a fun benefit. But, like, how can you elevate the everyday lives? Because that's where people's money is going. People's money is not going to houses and 401, K's anymore. Like, it is really about it's little treat culture, right? It's like, I want little treats in my day because it's what I can control. Yes,
Mariah Parsons 38:59
yeah, exactly. I love that. And too, I'll add, from the consumer perspective of there's so much greatness that comes with so many different products, so many different DTC brands doing all different things, and each of them finding their own, you know, own customer for XYZ. But there's also wrapped up in fear and buying habits is there's a lot of stuff that isn't made well on the internet, and so it's like you have to the onus is now on the consumer to do the product research, and it's less on the cost or on the company to try and you have to provide that information. But a lot of consumers nowadays are choosing to do their product research before buying, because there's so many different options, and you want to make sure you know you're not getting scammed on the internet. You want to make sure that you're not buying something that is not aligned with whatever goals you have, whatever morals you have, whatever buying psychology you want to subscribe to. You. And so I think that's also part of it, where you look at these subscribers, and they're very well informed on what they want. It's just how well can a company deliver on that? And that's what goes back to, you know, the goals and sharing the value of a subscriber, or of a subscription to a subscriber. Because I think that's, that's the piece, that there can be a disconnect. I don't think a lot of the times when, if someone lands and is shopping with you, they're in, they're in the ballpark, right? Like, it's rare that it's like someone's going to randomly buy something if they're not truly in the business for it. And so it's just, how can you tweak that messaging, that positioning, to make sure that you're the brand is delivering on the promise of the consumer. And I think it's just all also fascinating to see how you know consumer buyer behavior. And then, like you said, Product Marketing all ties together. And the things that you can tweak at AV test for all these different areas of the customer experience, it makes it a fun a fun time to, you know, be in this space.
Jen Gray 41:02
It's fun because we all have routines, right again, we all purchase, we all we all are consumers. And so I think it's fun because we wanted to really allow these brands to design and and to build, rather than just sort of like, hit a button and be like, we're going to do this. Like, we really wanted to empower brands to be able to design what they wanted for their consumers.
Mariah Parsons 41:24
Yeah, I love that. So we'll wrap up here in a few minutes, because we're already breezing through time. Never surprises me, but it always, always is a bummer. So let's talk about, you know, the you you kind of just touch on it, of like a little button of, you know, set it and forget it, or something that isn't really customizable, isn't really the isn't really a best practice. I think it's still probably a norm, because we're kind of moving into this new wave of okay, give, give the customer all the control in the world of what their program, their subscription program, can be. So can you talk to us a little bit about why this, set it and forget it mentality, or subscription isn't really the we'll call it, quote, unquote, the best or the optimized way for a brand to really draw out and build upon their subscription program. And
Jen Gray 42:18
we're seeing this. I think, you know, brands that come to us with just sort of this idea of, like, can you just get me up on a 15% Subscribe and Save button? It's not working. Like subscription growth isn't really happening, because you're only hitting convenience, and you've really got to start hitting on that value. And I actually kind of want to sneak peek something that we're doing. Maria, what is this? When is this episode going live?
Mariah Parsons 42:38
Yeah, it'll be. I will check right now. So August 26
Jen Gray 42:44
Okay, amazing. So I'm gonna sneak peek something.
Mariah Parsons 42:46
Oh, this is so exciting. Live surprises.
Jen Gray 42:49
What we're finding, I think, is that, again, our core belief is that the brands of tomorrow are subscription brands like your tam is larger and it's gonna be around for a lot longer. Your business is healthier and your consumers are happier. Like, that's, that's our core belief. But what I think we find is with practitioners and operators, like, it's, it's hard to get attention on your subscription brand. It's like, there's so many other things happening that are like, I don't care about subscriptions. So we wanted to make this moment in time to focus on your subscription brand. So on August 28 so in a couple days, wow, perfect timing. We are launching the tomorrow brand challenge. We are giving away almost a million dollars in prizes to brands focused on subscriber growth. And so we just wanted to give brands the time, the attention, the content, the empowerment to build their subscriber program, and then from there, we'll have a couple winners, and I'll have the website to you as well where you can go about more. But we're giving away, I think there's gonna be three winners. We're giving away 100k to each winner of Team retreat to each winner, and $50,000 to fund their next big marketing bet, like, if they ever wanted to do a billboard or a commercial or something that they didn't want to spend their own money on, we want to fund that. And they're also getting invited to the recharge brand trip in 2025 so this is our moment of like, okay, we fundamentally brief. Subscriptions are important for business. Let's empower brands to really focus. Okay, I
Mariah Parsons 44:21
love that. I am so excited, just for everyone listening, for everyone who I'm going to be telling about this that they're going to be able to enter this contest. I'll make sure that the link is in the podcast description as well, for when this all goes live. But that is so exciting. So I love eco cart did this maybe last year of like, a contest, yeah, yeah, of people building out their sustainable cart check out options and, you know, giving away, I forget what they gave away, but some awesome prizes. And they love that you all are enabling, you know, brands out there to say, Okay, we know how the. Audio subscription. We want you all to benefit from it. So here's something that will really, really benefit three but a lot of other people have their, you know, they're taking the time to build out their subscriptions. Anyways, they're going to get a return on that investment. And I love the, you know, the, I guess, the the not pride, almost, but the the wholehearted belief of, we know the value of this, and then just making it fun, right? Like that's, that's the SaaS version of the printed toilet paper wrapper, right? Like, something that is a treat, something that is exciting for the people that you all are working with, and that you know are putting in so much time and energy into building their brand, and this is something that you know is, is one of those things that you're like, What a cool opportunity to hear about. So kudos to you all that you're building out such a such a fun challenge for econ players in the space,
Jen Gray 45:54
and to really empower the retention marketer like, I think every other retention marketers, at least, that's really deserve like a bell ringer like that. That's so much, that's so much on that role, and there's so many different things to focus on. And so I think we really wanted to empower the retention marketers out there to really build and design great subscription experiences.
Mariah Parsons 46:14
Yes, I love it Well, with that exciting note to wrap up on. So thank you for that, Jen, this episode's been great. Thank you so much for making the time and being able to be flexible with all of our fun planning around our fun calendars. It's been a blast having you on, and I can't wait to continue to chat about retention and customer experience and subscriptions with you on and off of this podcast.
Jen Gray 46:36
Amazing. Thanks for having me.
